[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”20px||20px||true|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n
Bonaventure Soh Bejeng Ndikung<\/strong>:\u00a0It is\u00a0a great pleasure to see you and to have this chance to talk to you again\u00a0dear Hiwa.\u00a0It has been\u00a0very\u00a0moving\u00a0for me to experience\u00a0these three\u00a0epic\u00a0works of yours. It has been a real blessing,\u00a0to say the least,\u00a0so I want us to have a conversation around them.<\/p>\n The first thing I want to point out is that in looking at\u00a0Pre-Image (Blind as the Mother Tongue)\u00a0<\/span><\/i>(2017),\u00a0View from Above<\/i>\u00a0(2017),\u00a0and\u00a0Nazha and the Bell Project<\/i>\u00a0(2007\u201315), three main motions come to mind:\u00a0transformation, transition, and transcendence. Transformation for obvious reasons\u2014be it the bullets\u00a0or bells\u2014and varying forms of\u00a0passage or the transformation of human beings while\u00a0moving from A to B, which is also transition.<\/p>\n In that process of transition, there is also\u00a0a process of transcendence.\u00a0For example, you\u00a0talk about your father\u2019s passing, and music plays an important\u00a0role in that transcendence. I would like you to take these three things and run with them.<\/p>\n Hiwa K<\/strong>:\u00a0Thank you, Bona. As always, your questions are new for me. [laughs<\/i>] First of all, we have to make a distinction between change and transformation. Change is about the past, but transformation is about the unlimited potential of the future. Like the distinction between equity and equality. One of the reasons I gave up my studies at the conservatory was my professor Paco Pe\u00f1a\u2019s method. He said that the fingers of the right hand should all submit to the wrist, which is regulating the movements of each finger .\u00a0.\u00a0. I always had a problem with it, as I was thinking that each finger has its own momentum of playing the string and the whole hand should adapt and assist that finger in order to make an honest move. I see the notion of democracy in that way, the distinction between diversity and inclusion. That momentum is a stretch (constancy) rather than an instance, as it comes from a certain mood (pre-playing the note), is articulated (the moment of playing it), and is for the sake of an unknown potentiality that surprises us each time. Transition, transformation, transcendence.\u00a0<\/p>\n Speaking about\u00a0<\/span>Pre-Image (Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>\u00a0<\/span>I was seeing a problem\u00a0to\u00a0work with.\u00a0I will call it\u00a0neither a precolonial, nor colonial, nor postcolonial\u00a0context. In this work, I am\u00a0trying to pick up some footraces of the past that we are all embedded in, just as we are all implicated in what\u2019s happening now. Sometimes I say it\u2019s our duty for people from\u00a0countries\u00a0like ours\u00a0to teach their\u00a0governments. We have to teach them how to\u00a0be\u00a0involved\u00a0in solving\u00a0our\u00a0problems because in the end, it\u2019s about\u00a0us all rather than passing blame\u2014<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Sorry for interrupting, but just as an interjection\u00a0or addition\u00a0to\u00a0what you just said .\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0Paulo Freire\u00a0writes\u00a0in\u00a0The\u00a0Pedagogy\u00a0of the Oppressed<\/i>\u00a0that\u00a0in the process of dehumanizing others, the oppressor also dehumanizes himself. He\u00a0goes ahead to say\u00a0that the task of the oppressed is not only to free himself from\u00a0oppression but also to free the oppressor from this.1<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0all about stories, and stories are true as long as we don\u2019t get stuck in them. We are in a moment when we have to release each other from the stories in which we got stuck. That is the best way of teaching your \u201coppressor\u201d how to release himself from that pain. As you know, I\u00a0am\u00a0mainly a storyteller, and my latest project is to sell my stories\u2014not for money, but for tears. The\u00a0viewers and listeners have to cry and I\u2019ll\u00a0collect\u00a0their\u00a0tears.\u00a0My\u00a0burden\u00a0is that\u00a0I have a story\u00a0to tell. Shunyamurti says that love is when you release your lover from his or her story without making a story out of it.<\/p>\n In the Global South, we\u00a0are going\u00a0through\u00a0a drought\u2014the heat is getting tougher, like 58 degrees Celsius last summer in the Kurdistan region of Iraq, and there is\u00a0no water, as Turkey is building these dams\u00a0that deprive us of water. Consider the\u00a0millions of immigrants\u00a0that\u00a0are going to emigrate\u00a0to the West\u00a0because of the current condition,\u00a0and imagine\u00a0the\u00a0rise of the right wing as a result of this immigration. We are indeed in the last stage\u00a0before\u00a0experiencing this. But we are also welcoming a\u00a0new generation of children\u00a0that\u00a0are much more aware than our generation,\u00a0and this\u00a0gives\u00a0us so much hope. I don\u2019t try to be positive, I\u2019m double negative because of\u00a0this.\u00a0[laughs<\/i>]<\/p>\n So my concern now is:\u00a0How can\u00a0we\u00a0go beyond\u00a0just\u00a0the stories?\u00a0I\u00a0think what\u00a0we need now is\u00a0unconditional forgiveness, and we also need to teach\u00a0it.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Unconditional forgiveness.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0I\u00a0know it sounds\u00a0like a\u00a0clich\u00e9.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0No,\u00a0it doesn\u2019t\u00a0sound\u00a0like\u00a0a\u00a0clich\u00e9. The question is if it\u2019s true or not.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0When\u00a0we\u00a0speak from the heart, especially lately, I really feel I have to say\u00a0these things that might not\u00a0sound\u00a0very\u00a0intellectual in an art\u00a0context, but for me it\u2019s not\u00a0exclusively about that. We need to go beyond who\u2019s the observer and who\u2019s the observed.\u00a0We are all responsible and implicated in what\u2019s happening. We need to reconnect to the source from which we emerged. That\u2019s why I was\u00a0interested in working with\u00a0these bullets and cannons that have\u00a0been circulating around the world for centuries.<\/p>\n In the poem\u00a0<\/span>I Have Come into this World to See This<\/i>, Hafiz says, \u201cI have come into this world to see this: \/ the sword drop from men\u2019s hands even at the height \/ of their arc of anger \/ because we have finally realized there is just one flesh to wound \/ and it is .\u00a0.\u00a0. our beloved\u2019s.\u201d<\/p>\n Doing\u00a0<\/span>The Bell Project<\/i>\u00a0<\/span>was tantamount to the possibility of refraining from\u00a0assigning blame, to\u00a0go beyond that.\u00a0In this stage of my life and practice, that is what I am focusing on. In the past three years, after the international recognition as an \u201cArtist\u201d and after the art prizes I received,\u00a0at a time where I could have ten to twelve people working in my studio,\u00a0I didn\u2019t do any work\u00a0but made a\u00a0U-turn and went back to my country, trying to work\u00a0more within the communities in\u00a0Sulaymaniyah. Working the land with animals, trying to heal and be healed by the soil.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_image src=”https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/2-scaled.jpg” alt=”Yuri Ancarani The Challenge 2016 Still da video” title_text=”2″ module_id=”img2″ _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” width=”70%” max_width=”70%” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text module_id=”tptext” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_font_size=”16px” custom_margin=”10px||||false|false” hover_enabled=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}” sticky_enabled=”0″]<\/p>\n Hiwa K, The Bell Project<\/i>, 2007-2015, video still. Two channel video installation, SD & HD video, 16:9, color, sound with English subtitles. Courtesy of the artist; and KOW, Berlin. Fondazione In Between Art Film Collection.<\/span><\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”20px||20px||true|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]BN<\/strong>:\u00a0You\u00a0are tilling the soil.\u00a0You\u00a0are planting things that transform. The seeds\u00a0become plants, the plants\u00a0become\u00a0fruits, the fruits\u00a0are\u00a0eaten, so you get back to that circularity you\u2019re talking about, which is the circularity of that bullet that becomes the bell.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Beautiful!\u00a0When I wake up these mornings, instead of art, I think of the soil.\u00a0The soil and plants\u00a0were\u00a0mistreated with\u00a0pesticides and all sorts of\u00a0chemicals\u00a0(that tripled the amount of cancer in the country) during the many years of\u00a0Americanization of\u00a0Iraq. For over\u00a0two years\u00a0now, I\u00a0have been\u00a0trying to heal the soil. I became a kind of nurse after being a partisan for decades. I\u2019m no\u00a0longer interested in revolutionary\u00a0speech, I\u00a0have become a\u00a0nurse because there\u2019s so much to heal.\u00a0I see soil as intestines. During my childhood I was given so many antibiotics that I was sick for many years. We shouldn\u2019t forget\u00a0the geopolitical crises\u00a0we are facing worldwide, among many other crises, and they all are the outcome of the neoliberal politics that came to Iraq during Paul Bremer\u2019s presidency.\u00a0I have to deal with\u00a0the\u00a0water shortages myself. Turkey and Iran are depriving Iraq of water and using it as a way to suppress Iraq politically.<\/p>\n Meanwhile, I\u00a0am\u00a0working on\u00a0building\u00a0a\u00a0portable cinema.\u00a0We\u00a0go from one village\u00a0to another\u00a0talking about how to treat\u00a0and care for\u00a0the soil\u00a0and\u00a0how to\u00a0appreciate\u00a0old traditional knowledges of dealing with land and the environment.\u00a0This work of the past few years has also\u00a0transformed the notion of \u201cme.\u201d<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Hiwa, what you just said reminds me of what I read a few days ago by a young Cameroonian agro and social entrepreneur, Roland Fomundam.\u00a0He\u00a0studied biology and business management\u00a0in the US\u00a0but left and came back home\u00a0to work in agriculture. He said that a few decades ago,\u00a0one\u00a0could plant seeds and they\u00a0grew\u00a0into strong\u00a0plants, and\u00a0there were not many insects destroying the plants because the plants\u00a0had\u00a0self-defense mechanisms.\u00a0But then we were sold fertilizers that were meant to boost the growth of plants, but ended up\u00a0weakening them and making them more susceptible to insects and diseases.\u00a0Basically,\u00a0we as well as our plants have become\u00a0dependent\u00a0on these chemicals. The question is, how does one break that cycle? I think taking care of the soil is part of breaking that cycle.\u00a0But we must also talk about breaking the cycle\u00a0that locks one up in\u00a0the art world. Taking\u00a0cinema\u00a0and messages\u00a0to the people seems to be an effort to break that cycle.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Encountering\u00a0\u201cthe people\u201d\u00a0is not an easy task either. I meet people who are just, metaphorically speaking,\u00a0into big, bombastic, and shiny\u00a0tomatoes, as well as everything else that looks beautiful.\u00a0They are into order and neatness: grass\u00a0shouldn\u2019t grow randomly, but rather\u00a0neat\u00a0and orderly. Also,\u00a0I have the feeling that they have been conquered or consumed by the\u00a0so-called American dream. In Iraq, we have a\u00a0new\u00a0kind of grasshopper, which can only be killed using\u00a0Monsanto\u2019s pesticides. Don\u2019t ask me where this kind of grasshopper comes from.<\/p>\n During the war, the first rocket\u00a0hit the archive [bank] of\u00a0seeds,\u00a0which is the oldest archive in the world.\u00a0Despite this aggression from outside,\u00a0there is hardly space for\u00a0accusation. I think art is stuck in accusation, every art show leaves such a negative impact on you that you feel completely hopeless about doing anything.\u00a0We are in this situation nowadays where we need to\u00a0work organically. I know I am sounding kind of spiritual, but .\u00a0.\u00a0. Again, I know the word \u201clove,\u201d\u00a0just\u00a0like \u201cfreedom,\u201d\u00a0has been so misused, and so I\u2019m\u00a0worried\u00a0to use it, but what goes to the heart is the most important.\u00a0The point is, when we are\u00a0out\u00a0there meeting with people and\u00a0working together on the soil and\u00a0the trees, we learn from\u00a0the trees\u00a0and the land.\u00a0When you look at\u00a0how slowly\u00a0trees grow,\u00a0you start to slow down with them.\u00a0I might have digressed, but I think that\u2019s what we actually\u00a0need\u00a0right now. Humankind is the only species who\u00a0can live in a way that is opposite to its own nature.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I think you are still very much within the frame, but I want us to make a shift toward transcendence\u00a0as another\u00a0thread\u00a0that goes\u00a0through these\u00a0videos of yours. There\u2019s the moment where you\u00a0talk about\u00a0your cousin telling\u00a0you that you lost your father, and he\u2019s expecting you to react in a certain way, and you say,\u00a0\u201cWell, it\u2019s the first time\u00a0I\u00a0ever lost\u00a0my father.\u201d\u00a0Or\u00a0when you\u2019re leaving Kurdistan and your mother tells you,\u00a0\u201cWhen you meet death\u00a0don\u2019t be afraid, it\u2019s just death.\u201d\u00a0Can you please talk about\u00a0your\u00a0articulation of and\u00a0relationship to transcendence?<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0It\u2019s a very, very strong question. I\u00a0will\u00a0tell\u00a0you a story.\u00a0Recently I was with\u00a0my mom\u00a0on the farm, but I couldn\u2019t work because of back pain,\u00a0and\u00a0she said\u00a0we must clear the\u00a02,500-square-meter\u00a0farm. She\u2019s eighty-two.\u00a0So when I exclaimed that this was too much for her to do she replied,\u00a0\u201cWhile the eye is scared, the hand is already working.\u201d\u00a0[laughter<\/i>] As you see in\u00a0View from\u00a0Above<\/i>, the eye can go to astronomical\u00a0lengths, but the hands\u00a0are short.\u00a0What my mother said resonated with me. In some way, it\u00a0is exactly talking about my\u00a0artistic\u00a0works,\u00a0as\u00a0sometimes I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing.\u00a0There is so much uncertainty\u00a0in the practice, although\u00a0my\u00a0hands\u00a0are working while my eyes are\u00a0afraid. It\u2019s an attempt to give vision to the hand in order to go astronomical distances.<\/p>\n Do you remember\u00a0that I showed\u00a0Pre-Image<\/i>\u00a0to no one, as I was really worried to\u00a0show it\u00a0at\u00a0documenta 14?\u00a0I told Adam Szymczyk that\u00a0I\u00a0was\u00a0not ready to show\u00a0it.\u00a0But you were the first person to watch it, and when I showed\u00a0it to you at the hotel\u00a0you liked it, and I said, \u201cOh, God, now, thank God, now I can show it.\u201d<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I was so moved by it.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes, but also the way you talked about it. I don\u2019t know, those gifts transform you, transcending into another frequency.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I want us to talk about music as a medium of contentment. You are\u00a0very close to the guitar, even when the instrument is not around. I often see your fingers moving when I talk to you,\u00a0Hiwa. Your fingers are constantly playing\u00a0the guitar even without the guitar.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0All the time, yes.[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_image src=”https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/3.png” alt=” Foto di Philipp H\u00e4nger Kunsthalle Basel” title_text=”3″ module_id=”img3″ _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” width=”70%” max_width=”70%” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text module_id=”tptext” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_font_size=”16px” custom_margin=”10px||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n Hiwa K, The Bell Project<\/i>, 2007-2015, video still, two channel video installation, SD & HD video, 16:9, color, sound with English subtitles. Courtesy of the artist; and KOW, Berlin. Fondazione In Between Art Film Collection.<\/span><\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”20px||20px||true|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0As if the instrument was an extension of your body. There\u2019s something about your relationship to sound that is produced or sound that is inhabited in you that also serves as a lubricant to that transcendence. Even if there is no sound in\u00a0your videos, there is this\u00a0constant\u00a0musicality.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0True, even with image\u00a0there is musicality.\u00a0I never\u00a0impose\u00a0music on films. If the music happens inside of the situation, I let it, because the voices and all those things are constant music for me. It\u2019s like\u00a0a\u00a0third dimension of painting,\u00a0or it\u00a0gives you the illusion of a third dimension, which\u00a0is like\u00a0Jesus going back to God.<\/p>\n The last thing\u00a0before his death that Muhammad told Abubakar to tell people was: \u201cWhoever worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, then Allah is alive and shall never die.\u201d\u00a0Muhammad brings you to this two-dimensionality; he doesn\u2019t let you have this illusion of going to paradise, which doesn\u2019t exist.\u00a0One has the impression\u00a0it\u2019s about pigment, it\u2019s about dissolving in the soil in which he dissolves too as each one of us.<\/p>\n The point I am making is not\u00a0about Christianity or Islam, but about his philosophy.\u00a0You know what, I think if Muhammad was alive, he would listen to\u00a0blues or\u00a0jazz because the first person he asked to cry was Bilal ibn Rabah, who was a slave from Ethiopia. [laughter<\/i>]<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Beautiful. The interesting thing about it is that there are\u00a0great singers\u00a0like Salif Keita in Mali\u00a0today\u00a0who say they are descendants of Bilal.\u00a0The\u00a0griots\u00a0are still singing\u00a0from their hearts.<\/p>\n SOUND IS SITUATIONAL\u00a0AND BEARS\u00a0A FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH THAT\u00a0DOESN\u2019T CARE ABOUT\u00a0WHO IS\u00a0THE LISTENER AND WHO IS THE PLAYER. IT GOES BEYOND THAT BECAUSE SOUND ALWAYS\u00a0REMINDS US\u00a0THAT SOMETHING SEPARATES US FROM EACH OTHER.\u00a0SOUND ALSO BRINGS US THIS KIND OF\u00a0WEIGHT\u2014SOUND IS VERY VULNERABLE, BUT MUCH STRONGER THAN CONCRETE.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Sound is situational\u00a0and bears\u00a0a fundamental truth that\u00a0doesn\u2019t care about\u00a0who is\u00a0the listener and who is the player. It goes beyond that because sound always\u00a0reminds us\u00a0that something separates us from each other.\u00a0Sound also brings us this kind of\u00a0weight\u2014sound is very vulnerable, but much stronger than concrete.<\/p>\n Before the rehearsals of the\u00a0Chicago Boys<\/i>\u00a0project (2010\u2013ongoing, which is a revival band and study group around free market economy),\u00a0I invited\u00a0the whole group\u00a0to\u00a0weigh ourselves on a big scale\u00a0with the aim of\u00a0knowing\u00a0how many kilograms we are all together. It\u2019s about being\u00a0together and\u00a0sweating\u00a0together.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I woke up this morning and I remembered a song\u00a0that I sang in my childhood, and I sang it for the first time to my children. It was powerful.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Why this morning?<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I\u00a0am not sure. It just came and\u00a0I\u00a0sang to my children.\u00a0And while doing so, I wondered\u00a0why is there such an incredible feeling?\u00a0Indeed it was\u00a0stronger than concrete. There\u2019s another song\u00a0that we sang as children with the lyrics\u00a0\u201cAll things on earth shall live\u00a0ever to die, but music alone shall live\u00a0never to die.\u201d<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0So beautiful. Can you sing it?\u00a0[laugh<\/i>]\u00a0Brother, can you sing? It\u2019s so beautiful!<\/p>\n <\/p>\n BN:<\/strong>\u00a0[Sings<\/i>]<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0In his poem \u201cGive Me the Flute,\u201d Gibran Kahlil Gibran says:\u00a0\u201cGive me the flute, and sing, \/ Singing is the secret of eternity, \/ Only mourning of the flute remains,\u00a0\/ When everything vanishes.\u201d<\/p>\n Yesterday,\u00a0I saw a\u00a0musician\u00a0eating\u00a0a watermelon and I really liked it.\u00a0Though\u00a0shy, I\u00a0asked him for a piece and he shared\u00a0it\u00a0with me.\u00a0He\u00a0ate the red part and stopped at the\u00a0green.\u00a0But I ate on deeper into the green and it tasted different\u2014more sour,\u00a0and drier. Then I asked\u00a0the musician,\u00a0\u201cDo you know this taste?\u201d Then I said,\u00a0\u201cI see new music,\u00a0where\u00a0do you give up?\u00a0Maybe you play with major and minor, but\u00a0one can go deeper,\u00a0go to augmented, half-diminished, to diminished and dead-diminished chords. We cannot get there if we don\u2019t eat the green part, the whole way to the skin. I like\u00a0to\u00a0go further and don\u2019t be afraid. We\u2019ll all get old and enjoy this too.\u201d\u00a0I\u00a0was\u00a0translating\u00a0my eating experience into musicality. This\u00a0too\u00a0is music\u2014eating this watermelon and\u00a0not\u00a0knowing\u00a0where to stop because, where\u2019s the skin, where\u2019s the bone? We really have to get to the heart.\u00a0I spent just\u00a0five minutes\u00a0with that musician and\u00a0I wasn\u2019t trying to\u00a0teach him anything, but explaining something to\u00a0him with my teeth and tongue and jaw. How new food influences and reconstructs the interior architecture of our mouth, such as new languages do, and sound does the same the ear.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0The essence.\u00a0Beautiful. I would like us to zoom\u00a0more into the specific works.\u00a0Let\u00a0us to start with\u00a0Pre-Image\u00a0(Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>. For obvious reason, I want us to start with the title. What exactly do mean\u00a0when you say\u00a0\u201cblind\u00a0as the\u00a0mother tongue\u201d?<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Whenever\u00a0I\u2019m asked\u00a0this, I have to find a\u00a0new\u00a0reason.\u00a0When I do my\u00a0work, I jump in\u00a0with four legs like\u00a0an\u00a0animal, and I have to justify it with only two legs. It\u00a0was a very unique experience being in the\u00a0container\u00a0in\u00a0Pre-Image\u00a0(Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>\u00a0and not being allowed to move.\u00a0Why blind?\u00a0I am\u00a0trying not to give you a prepared answer. I\u00a0am\u00a0really trying\u00a0to dig a bit more\u00a0into\u00a0the watermelon\u2014the deep part. It\u2019s very hard to answer this time. Why blind? If you remember, in the video I am talking in my mother tongue while I am laying in the complete darkness under the heavy truckload from the truck and trying not to make any movement in order not to be noticed by the guards. That moment was the ultimate limitation for my body as well as for my ego. Especially when the guard came standing on the load above me to check whether there was someone hiding there. In the video, I could describe that moment only in my mother tongue. In one of the sentences, I revolt against vision as the final touch from God. We reproduce images just to suspend the real. To avoid that, you need to go before the moment when the image has been fixed. Taking \u201cgaze\u201d by surprise.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_image src=”https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/4.jpg” alt=”Yuri Ancarani, San Siro, 2014. Still da video. Courtesy dell\u2019artista, ZERO…, Isabella Bortolozzi Galerie” title_text=”4″ module_id=”img4″ _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” width=”70%” max_width=”70%” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text module_id=”tptext” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_font_size=”16px” custom_margin=”10px||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n Hiwa K, View From Above<\/i>, 2017, video still. Single channel HD video. <\/span>Courtesy of the artist; and KOW, Berlin. Fondazione In Between Art Film Collection.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”20px||20px||true|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0My friend,\u00a0Raphael Chikukwa, who is the director of the National Gallery in Zimbabwe,\u00a0spoke in a conference, and\u00a0was advocating for us\u00a0to\u00a0speak our own languages, our mother tongues. He\u00a0asked: \u201cIn what language do you cry?\u201d It reminded me of\u00a0Pre-Image\u00a0(Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>.\u00a0\u201cIn what language do you cry?\u201d To me that question\u00a0means,\u00a0\u201cWhat is\u00a0the language from within?\u201d That to me is what I understood\u00a0from\u00a0Pre-Image (Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>. Again, I\u2019m asking this question because the whole film, to me, is poetry. I don\u2019t know what else I can call it. Of course, like love, poetry has also been used and misused, but I still believe in the truth of poetry. So\u00a0I want you to talk about the notion of fragmentation in language because\u00a0in the film you take us\u00a0into that world and experience. Like\u00a0a storyteller, you are telling us a story\u00a0from multiple perspectives\u2014fragments.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes, true.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Or one could also say multiplicity, the various ways of experiencing\u00a0a situation. Like when you say,\u00a0\u201cOh, this path seems familiar to\u00a0me\u00a0because\u00a0I\u2019ve walked on it before.\u201d<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0In the aforementioned work, I say I have been here before .\u00a0.\u00a0. maybe centuries ago. Through those mirrors I am trying to trace my footsteps that I took centuries ago. Meaning by that, all traces and fingerprints of our culture upon the Western world.<\/p>\n Just to add one thing about the\u00a0question on\u00a0mother tongue and the title: my difficulty in\u00a0answering\u00a0this\u00a0could\u00a0also\u00a0be\u00a0the\u00a0answer,\u00a0because the title\u00a0teases you to dig as I\u00a0myself\u00a0am digging\u2014and sometimes I don\u2019t find anything meaningful. It is like the experience of\u00a0the Kurds in Turkey,\u00a0who are not allowed to speak their language:\u00a0\u201cHow can I love in a language that you forced me to learn?\u201d My\u00a0mother tongue is so important, and I wouldn\u2019t call it language. Language is something you learn.\u00a0So\u00a0that\u2019s not language. As I said, you hear it when you are in\u00a0your\u00a0mother\u2019s womb; you hear all these sounds and these verses. You learn it before you get\u00a0to open your eyes.\u00a0It comes before vision. So, again,\u00a0why blind? It\u2019s the opposite of\u00a0 \u201clet there be light,\u201d\u00a0from above. No, it\u2019s\u00a0\u201clet there be darkness,\u201d from the inside.<\/p>\n Now to the question of\u00a0fragmentation.\u00a0Where\u00a0I\u00a0come from, sometimes you ask an old person,\u00a0\u201cHow old are you?\u201d\u00a0And they\u00a0answer,\u00a0\u201cI don\u2019t know, somewhere between eighty and seventy.\u201d\u00a0That was the\u00a0culture before Americanization. People used to see things as whole. Now people are obsessed with centimeters and millimeters.\u00a0Fragmentation happens when you don\u2019t have this and you come to encounter something that is so structured, which is the way\u00a0the West presented itself\u2014as the most\u00a0structured, much stronger, and having\u00a0the best medium for everything. So, in\u00a0<\/span>Pre-Image<\/i>\u00a0<\/span>I am describing a culture that hasn\u2019t participated in the notion of\u00a0<\/span>Ich<\/i>\u00a0<\/span>and has been looted and had its parts spread in different places. The mirrors are tracing those scattered parts.<\/p>\n Another thing that\u00a0I\u00a0find\u00a0very challenging\u00a0is the question of\u00a0identity. What\u2019s in an identity when you look\u00a0in the mirror and see another image, not yourself?\u00a0It\u2019s about daring to be someone else.\u00a0To see another image and dare to look different (a non-selfie). In the film, it is also about the negotiation between the way I want to go\u00a0and\u00a0the mood of the object,\u00a0which always\u00a0wants\u00a0to go somewhere else. That is why I adapt. There is\u00a0also a\u00a0grammar\u00a0that\u00a0I have to keep,\u00a0which is\u00a0the grammar\u00a0of\u00a0balancing.\u00a0The object\u00a0shouldn\u2019t fall. It\u2019s the attempt of a non-centered entity that pretends to be a centered white man. Borrowing his vision from above.<\/p>\n And then you could also ask,\u00a0why\u00a0\u201cpre-image\u201d\u00a0rather than \u201cimage\u201d? That\u2019s when you don\u2019t have the luxury of gazing at something.\u00a0It\u2019s quite a privilege to\u00a0gaze at someone, and as soon as you gaze,\u00a0your\u00a0ego starts to make an image, which is\u00a0fixed, pinned\u00a0down, and then you can conquer it. But I don\u2019t have that luxury because I\u2019m busy with balancing, to guarantee my next step.<\/p>\n AND THEN YOU COULD ALSO ASK,\u00a0WHY\u00a0\u201cPRE-IMAGE\u201d\u00a0RATHER THAN\u00a0\u201cIMAGE\u201d?\u00a0THAT\u2019S\u00a0WHEN\u00a0YOU DON\u2019T HAVE THE LUXURY OF GAZING AT SOMETHING.\u00a0IT\u2019S QUITE A PRIVILEGE TO\u00a0GAZE AT SOMEONE,\u00a0AND AS SOON AS YOU GAZE,\u00a0YOUR\u00a0EGO STARTS TO MAKE AN IMAGE, WHICH IS\u00a0FIXED,\u00a0PINNED\u00a0DOWN, AND THEN YOU CAN CONQUER IT. BUT I DON\u2019T HAVE THAT LUXURY BECAUSE I\u2019M BUSY WITH BALANCING, TO GUARANTEE MY NEXT STEP.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0When you mentioned earlier about\u00a0not being able to say\u00a0\u201cI love you\u201d\u00a0in Kurdish, it reminded me of what Ng\u0169g\u0129\u00a0wa Thiong\u2019o wrote\u00a0in\u00a0Decolonizing the Mind<\/i>.2 He said that\u00a0when he was in school\u00a0he couldn\u2019t speak his mother tongue. The colonial school system didn\u2019t permit that. He\u00a0started writing in his mother tongue to avoid writing in English because of that, and that is part of the process of decolonizing one\u2019s mind.<\/p>\n I would like for you\u00a0to unpack that\u00a0notion of the \u201cpre-image\u201d\u00a0a bit more and talk more about this balance. There\u2019s a beautiful part in\u00a0the film in\u00a0which you say, \u201cMy\u00a0upper body is enslaving my\u00a0lower part.\u201d\u00a0I obviously thought of balance then. What is that when the upper body enslaves\u00a0the lower part?\u00a0If your upper part cannot be carried by your lower because it\u2019s enslaving the lower part, then there\u2019s no balance.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_image src=”https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/5.jpg” alt=”Yuri Ancarani, Piattaforma Luna, 2011. Still da video. Courtesy dell\u2019artista, ZERO…, Isabella Bortolozzi Galerie” title_text=”5″ module_id=”img5″ _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” width=”70%” max_width=”70%” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text module_id=”tptext” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_font_size=”16px” custom_margin=”10px||||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n Hiwa K,\u00a0Pre-Image (Blind as the Mother Tongue)<\/i>, 2017, video still. Single channel HD video. Courtesy of the artist; KOW, Berlin; and Prometeo Gallery Ida Pisani, Milan-Lucca.\u00a0Fondazione In Between Art Film Collection.<\/span><\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”20px||20px||true|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0First of all,\u00a0it was about a\u00a0physical\u00a0burden, because\u00a0the character\/myself was working\u00a0very hard. The character\u00a0was working in\u00a0a\u00a0factory in a basement in Turkey for\u00a0fourteen hours a day\u00a0to earn\u00a0$100 a month.\u00a0During\u00a0the breaks, I would make drawings, paintings\u2014a legacy of the\u00a0fourteen years of self-studying\u00a0abstract paintings\u00a0in particular, and Western art in general in Iraq. You know,\u00a0sometimes, when you\u00a0have a\u00a0meaningful encounter,\u00a0you cannot just take a cab.\u00a0You have to walk, or you go on your knees, or you have to crawl in a sacred way because that\u00a0which awaits you is so important. For\u00a0Pre-Image<\/i>, it was very important for me to\u00a0carry all these images and burdens\u00a0on my nose. To me, it\u2019s the burden of art history from my perspective, which is that of\u00a0an artist who\u2019s defeated. I was replicating the Western art tradition for about fourteen years of my artistic life. I was literally carrying them in my backpack when I was walking toward Europe. So it was an important encounter with the West, questioning why I am deprived from my own art? Why am I repeating you? What happened that I lost track of my footsteps?\u00a0<\/p>\n For many centuries,\u00a0the\u00a0Westerners\u00a0thought\u00a0that\u00a0non-Westerners\u00a0couldn\u2019t see well, that\u2019s why they\u00a0used\u00a0such strong colors. They\u00a0thought non-Westerners couldn\u2019t hear well, and that they were\u00a0physically\u00a0disabled, that\u2019s why their colors are so screamingly shining. This\u00a0is\u00a0what\u00a0I\u00a0mean by\u00a0the fact that the upper part is enslaving the lower part. If you watch the video\u00a0<\/span>View\u00a0from\u00a0Above<\/i>,\u00a0it\u2019s\u00a0the same thing.\u00a0The judge\u00a0is\u00a0looking from above and is\u00a0in charge of deciding\u00a0the fate of the person who is in the lower part,\u00a0according to his data [a map]\u00a0that don\u2019t match the reality .\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0but we will come to this\u00a0later.\u00a0It reminds me of\u00a0this Moroccan philosopher\u00a0who once\u00a0said that\u00a0ears are always connected to the heart, and eyes connected to the brain.\u00a0This sounds true to\u00a0me. I don\u2019t know if\u00a0I ever told you\u00a0the story\u00a0my mom\u00a0told me\u00a0about heritage?<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Please,\u00a0tell\u00a0me\u00a0again.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0An\u00a0older brother wants to fool his younger\u00a0brother\u00a0because their father died and he wants to get everything from the estate. He says,\u00a0\u201cListen, my little brother, from the floor to the roof belongs to me, and from the roof to the sky belongs to you.\u201d He actually gives him everything! The whole universe.\u00a0It might sound romantic, but this is reflected in my artworks too.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0To me,\u00a0View from Above<\/i>\u00a0is one of your most important\u00a0works.\u00a0The politics of it,\u00a0its questioning\u00a0of maps, the way cartography became such an incredible colonizing tool, and\u00a0is still\u00a0a\u00a0violent tool.\u00a0I watched the\u00a0video with my students, and we noticed how the judge was\u00a0playing God.\u00a0But\u00a0I\u00a0would like\u00a0you to talk about the\u00a0notion of the safe zone\u2014that fictitious place in the mind of European bureaucrats.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0This is about\u00a0the luxury of\u00a0gazing,\u00a0which\u00a0some bureaucrats\u00a0have,\u00a0especially in the context of immigration. They are never in touch with\u00a0reality. The only thing they do is put it on the map\u2014determine\u00a0where\u00a0in the world is safe and where is unsafe. Unfortunately, in\u00a0what they call\u00a0\u201csafe zones,\u201d there is unsafety. For the\u00a0West, it\u2019s black and white.\u00a0They trace this \u201csafety\u201d line that goes from\u00a0North\u00a0to\u00a0South,\u00a0and\u00a0if you live one village behind that, they can send you back. Even\u00a0if\u00a0you\u00a0live\u00a0just 200 meters away from the Iraqi army, where you could be caught or attacked\u00a0within\u00a0seconds\u2014but\u00a0the map doesn\u2019t know that.\u00a0Just like\u00a0the\u00a0system,\u00a0it doesn\u2019t see. It\u2019s blind. It\u00a0oversees.\u00a0That\u2019s why I say\u00a0that the\u00a0judge is a narcissist\u00a0and that you have to climb\u00a0from behind when everyone is asleep.<\/p>\n What the character in the video does is\u00a0pretend\u00a0that he comes\u00a0from another\u00a0city that is \u201cunsafe\u201d according to the UN.\u00a0Then, using the strategy of the judge, he\u00a0learns how to situate himself in that city by studying the\u00a0map\u00a0and talking to\u00a0people from that city.\u00a0And when the character is interrogated by the judge and\u00a0responds from the perspective of the judge, the judge exclaims:\u00a0\u201cFinally, I found someone who is true. Someone who sees from my perspective.\u201d\u00a0So in the end,\u00a0it is only the\u00a0liar who gets asylum. All the people who are coming from those unsafe zones cannot describe their city from the perspective of the judge, and cannot prove that they are from those cities.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I think the crux of this whole film is about making the unsafe zone safe\u00a0while still unsafe.\u00a0Someone seeking refuge needs to convince the European bureaucrat that the \u201csafe zone\u201d of his mind, his imaginary \u201csafe zone,\u201d is actually an\u00a0unsafe zone.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes, exactly, because these zones are not\u00a0safe. It\u2019s just\u00a0a\u00a0fiction.\u00a0People like us cannot go there.\u00a0And you cannot determine safety by looking at maps.\u00a0They send\u00a0people seeking refuge in Europe\u00a0back\u00a0to Iraq\u00a0and they get killed.\u00a0The character in the film spent five years\u00a0in a deportation center with the fear of being sent back to a so-called safe zone. But where is the safety?\u00a0The perspective of the\u00a0person looking from above has nothing to do with the reality\u00a0on the ground.\u00a0His\u00a0power\u00a0is\u00a0in\u00a0his eyes.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0One thing I was thinking, Hiwa, is that there\u2019s a conflict there, a conflict between mono-visuality and\u00a0pluri-visuality. The judge can only see mono-visually. It takes me back to\u00a0Pre-Image<\/i>\u00a0where\u00a0you are\u00a0looking\u00a0at the world through the reflections of all those mirrors. That is pluri-visuality.\u00a0The\u00a0judge\u00a0can\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n There is a lot of \u201cmono-\u201d in Western cultures\u2014monogamy, monotheism, monopoly.\u00a0The problem we\u2019re facing is that with colonialism,\u00a0this mono-visuality\u00a0and other monocultures have been imposed on us.\u00a0I think with your artistic practice, you are questioning these \u201cmonos.\u201d I wanted to ask you\u00a0about your choice of the form of\u00a0storytelling\u00a0.\u00a0.\u00a0.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes, and now fighting a monoculture that has been exported to our country, which has practiced permaculture for thousands of years.\u00a0<\/p>\n Going back to the pluri-me, one of the survival strategies for asylum seekers is the elasticity of their story. You have to be unfaithful to your own photo album, your own biography. That enables you create a space, a third dimension around the linear Western bureaucracy. Also, by crossing borders illegally you have to find new strategies in order to overcome the pitfalls that have been set by the bureaucrats.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_image src=”https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/6.jpg” alt=”Yuri Ancarani, Whipping Zombie, 2017. Still da video. Courtesy dell\u2019artista, ZERO…, Isabella Bortolozzi Galerie” title_text=”6″ module_id=”img6″ _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” width=”70%” max_width=”70%” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text module_id=”tptext” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_font_size=”16px” custom_margin=”10px||||false|false” hover_enabled=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}” sticky_enabled=”0″]<\/p>\n Hiwa K, View From Above<\/i>, 2017, video still. Single channel HD video. <\/span>Courtesy of the artist; and KOW, Berlin. Fondazione In Between Art Film Collection.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” text_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” text_text_color=”#000000″ text_font_size=”20px” custom_margin=”31px||31px||true|false” custom_padding=”||5px||false|false” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0In the beginning, we\u00a0talked about\u00a0transformation, transition, transcendence. I have heard of people who came to Europe to\u00a0seek asylum\u00a0and they\u00a0had to become another person.\u00a0They\u00a0have to become the story\u00a0they tell to\u00a0make the European bureaucrat understand that\u00a0they\u00a0are unsafe. That is transformation. The question is who was that person that you left?\u00a0What is the relationship between that new person and that old person in moments of extreme difficulty and precarity?<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0When you create a new person, a new name, age, even fingerprints (don\u2019t ask me how), then you live with that person for fifteen years, you become it. The moment you officially claim and regain your \u201creal\u201d name again, you start to feel a huge gap in your life. You start to miss that \u201cme.\u201d That leads you to a question, \u201cIf I can change my story so easily, what is real about it?\u201d You realize that there was no story in the first place. You have to experience it. [laughs<\/i>]<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0And even in the most difficult moments you always have a joke to tell.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>: I love jokes because it is the only real thing. One of my spiritual teachers said once: \u201cComedy is the highest mode of literature because you start laughing about the stupidity of our species for all the tragedy and drama they are making.\u201d<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I want us to talk about spirituality because, knowing you for many years now, although you don\u2019t\u00a0call\u00a0on any\u00a0gods\u00a0I know you are a deeply spiritual person. That is the way I perceive you. I\u00a0think of\u00a0the\u00a0church\u00a0bells\u00a0you worked with. They give me goosebumps. They call you in. I wanted us to use this sound\u00a0of\u00a0the bell to introduce the idea of spirituality\u00a0behind\u00a0The Bell Project<\/i>.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0I don\u2019t consider myself a spiritual person. I have an atheist Marxist background, but recently I slipped into un-atheism as the outcome of being helpless to make a change or realizing that art in general is unable to transform. Instead, I am letting the soil teach me. We have to realize that we as a species (and other species as well) are on the edge of extinction and there is no time left. What was sold to us as reality has to be stripped from illusion. So art should transform in this very moment of disaster.<\/p>\n For me, when the bell\u00a0sounds,\u00a0it\u00a0opens\u00a0a\u00a0space\u00a0and allows you\u00a0to take a break from just\u00a0being you.\u00a0Sound is\u00a0fundamental\u00a0to me. When you hear certain sounds,\u00a0you forget for a while this pain\u00a0deep within you and your ego. Especially a sound that comes from a bell that cost thousands of lives for nothing.\u00a0<\/p>\n Sound\u00a0invites\u00a0us\u00a0all\u00a0to listen and to be here.\u00a0Sound\u00a0is\u00a0about\u00a0vibration. That\u2019s why I spent so much time finding\u00a0the\u00a0exact percentage, 79 percent copper and 21 percent tin,\u00a0in their\u00a0cleanest composition, 99 percent.\u00a0It was in order\u00a0to achieve the\u00a0right sound. It is also\u00a0question of vertical sound versus horizontal sound. And,\u00a0somehow, through the melting\u00a0process,\u00a0one achieves\u00a0horizontality.\u00a0I am also interested in\u00a0the urgency of the tones. When\u00a0I\u00a0play music,\u00a0there is an urgency. It\u00a0is like\u00a0breathing. We need to keep breathing, breathing together.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0There is also a process of reconnection going on in the piece\u2014for example, connecting the histories of the Middle East with the histories of Europe through the bell. It seems to me there is also a\u00a0healing or\u00a0a reconciliation\u00a0going on.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0We do have to heal,\u00a0and there is much to heal. But we can\u2019t heal without knowing. In my country, we\u00a0will be soon\u00a0have temperatures of about\u00a060 to 65 degrees Celsius, which will make it a dead zone.\u00a0How\u00a0can\u00a0we\u00a0correct this? Enduring pain,\u00a0enduring\u00a0heat, enduring many vicious practices and conditions, but what are the\u00a0solutions?\u00a0First,\u00a0we need to\u00a0do something meaningful. Like Rumi says,\u00a0if\u00a0you go and sit in a hole\u00a0and ask what\u00a0you can do,\u00a0you\u00a0will only\u00a0see the sky\u00a0as very\u00a0narrow.\u00a0But if you come out of the\u00a0hole,\u00a0you will see how big the sky is.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0I think the work you are doing has\u00a0agency. The\u00a0work has its own direction and mission.\u00a0The artist can only do so much, then the artwork takes over.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0The artist is\u00a0the midwife.\u00a0Often you see artworks speaking about postcolonialism, but the approach to materials, to the situation, and to the people who are engaged in it is colonial.\u00a0We\u00a0have to be very careful\u00a0and\u00a0let the materials speak.\u00a0We must allow for the situations\u00a0to\u00a0speak,\u00a0and for other\u00a0people to speak. As I said\u00a0earlier,\u00a0artists are\u00a0like midwives, and\u00a0they are just facilitating ideas to be birthed from the pregnant world.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0What would you say is the role of translation in your work?<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0There are several processes of\u00a0translation\u00a0in my work.\u00a0For example, in\u00a0<\/span>Cooking with\u00a0Mama\u00a0<\/i>(2015\u2013ongoing),\u00a0the\u00a0organic food from a physical space is translated into the digital space and becomes another organic body entirely. Translation by means of transformation. Also in\u00a0<\/span>The Bell Project<\/i>, or in\u00a0<\/span>View from Above<\/i>\u00a0<\/span>when K becomes M for fifteen years and then becomes someone who is beyond both. The same as when Islam translated Greek philosophy and gave it back to Europe.<\/p>\n BN<\/strong>:\u00a0Thank you so much.<\/p>\n HK<\/strong>:\u00a0Thank you so much.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”2_5″ _builder_version=”3.25″ custom_padding=”|||” global_colors_info=”{}” custom_padding__hover=”|||”][et_pb_tabs active_tab_background_color=”#FFFFFF” inactive_tab_background_color=”#FFFFFF” active_tab_text_color=”rgba(0,0,0,0.5)” disabled_on=”on|on|off” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” tab_text_color=”#000000″ body_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” body_line_height=”1.4em” tab_font=”ABC Web regular|||on|||||” tab_letter_spacing=”1px” body_link_text_color=”#cecece” background_color=”#FFFFFF” z_index=”0″ max_height=”600px” overflow-y=”scroll” filter_saturate=”0%” sticky_position=”top” sticky_offset_top=”115px” sticky_limit_top=”row” sticky_limit_bottom=”row” sticky_offset_surrounding=”off” sticky_transition=”off” border_width_all=”0px” locked=”off” global_colors_info=”{}” body_link_text_color__hover_enabled=”on|desktop” body_link_text_color__hover=”#cecece”][et_pb_tab title=”Bio” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” tab_letter_spacing=”2px” overflow-y=”scroll” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n Hiwa K<\/strong>\u00a0is an artist who was born in Kurdistan-Northern Iraq. After moving to Europe in 2002, he subsequently settled in Germany. Drawing from his autobiography, his works escape normative aesthetics while giving other vibrations to vernacular forms, oral histories, modes of encounter, and political situations.<\/p>\n Dr Bonaventure Soh Bejeng Ndikung<\/strong> is an independent curator, author, and biotechnologist. He is founder and artistic director of SAVVY Contemporary, Berlin,\u00a0and artistic director of sonsbeek20\u279c24, a quadrennial contemporary art exhibition in Arnhem. Previously, Ndikung was artistic director of the 12th Bamako Encounters\u00a0– African\u00a0Biennale\u00a0of\u00a0Photography, co-curator of the Finnish Pavilion at the Biennale Arte 2019 in Venice together with Miracle Workers Collective (MWC), guest curator of the 2018 Dak\u2019Art –\u00a0Biennale\u00a0de l\u2019Art Africain Contemporain, and curator-at-large at documenta 14 in Athens and Kassel. He is currently professor in the Spatial Strategies MA programme at the\u00a0Wei\u00dfensee Academy of Art in Berlin. He was guest professor in curatorial studies and sound art at the St\u00e4delschule, Frankfurt. He was also the recipient of the first OCAD University International Curators Residency fellowship.<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_tab][et_pb_tab title=”Notes” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” body_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” tab_font=”ABC Web regular||||||||” tab_font_size=”14px” tab_letter_spacing=”2px” background_color=”RGBA(0,0,0,0)” background_enable_color=”on” overflow-y=”auto” global_colors_info=”{}”]<\/p>\n 1 See Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed<\/i>, translated by Myra Bergman Ramos (London: Bloomsbury Publishing, 2018).<\/p>\n 2 See Ng\u0169g\u0129 wa\u00a0Thiong\u2019o, Decolonising the Mind: The Politics of Language in African Literature<\/i> (London: James Currey; Nairobi: Heinemann Kenya; Portsmouth, NH: Heinemann; Harare: Zimbabwe Publishing House, 1986).<\/p>\n [\/et_pb_tab][et_pb_tab title=”Images” _builder_version=”4.14.8″ _module_preset=”default” tab_letter_spacing=”2px” overflow-y=”scroll” global_colors_info=”{}”]![\"Hiwa](\"https:\/\/still.inbetweenartfilm.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/1.jpg\" "\\"Hiwa")
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